Dr. James Reese, Faculty Member, Practicum Coordinator & Community Relations, Sports Management & Esports and
James DeMeo, sports venue security expert; retired law enforcement officer
In this episode, APU’s Dr. Jim Reese sits down with James DeMeo, a security expert with decades of experience in law enforcement and event security. DeMeo shares his journey from working in law enforcement on Long Island to becoming a consultant and educator specializing in security for sports venues. He dives into the challenges of keeping large crowds safe at stadiums and concerts, emphasizing the “duty of care” that security teams owe to attendees. DeMeo highlights how vital it is for venue managers to balance creating a safe environment with making the fan experience enjoyable.
He also talks about the latest security tools, from biometrics to surveillance technology, that help identify potential threats before they escalate. For students, especially those with military backgrounds, DeMeo offers advice: start networking, keep learning, and get hands-on experience. He believes new professionals in sports security can make a big impact by understanding the importance of collaboration, proactive planning, and staying on top of security trends.
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Read the Transcript:
Jim Reese: Hello and welcome to our Voices in the Field podcast series, brought to you by the APU Sports Management Program. My name is Jim Reese and I’ll be your host for today’s podcast. Our special guest today is Mr. James DeMeo, a former law enforcement officer and expert in event security. James, welcome and thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be with us today.
James DeMeo: Absolutely, Jim, thank you for the opportunity.
Jim Reese: It’s great to have you. Would you please give us a little bit of your background, how you got into security, what some of your roles are now, and maybe any projects you might have going on?
James DeMeo: Sure thing. So, James DeMeo, nearly 35 years in the security industry, 21 of which I was with the Nassau County Police Department on Long Island, New York. I was in patrol, I taught in the police academy, eventually became an investigator, worked in juvenile aid as well as missing persons. In my 20th year, I decided to go back to school, and I pursued a master’s degree at Adelphi University in sport management and subsequently graduated.
And through the suggestion of one of my professors, connected with a gentleman from the New York Islanders, who introduced me to John Young, who’s retired NYPD, NHL liaison. And that’s really where the light bulb for sports security went off for me. And since that time, I’ve had the good fortune of opening the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York with AEG. Worked at a mid-size venue in Austin, Texas and have migrated into the higher ed space now teaching with Tulane University. This semester as well with Newbury College in South Carolina undergraduate focusing primarily on sports security, facilities, and risk assessment. So again, great to be here today.
Jim Reese: That’s a heck of a resume, my friend. It really is. There’s a lot going on in sports right now in regard to the importance of security, just the way the world is. What’s your sense for the state of security at sports facilities around the country, just based on what you’re seeing now?
James DeMeo: Sure. The way the world is, I mean, we look at obviously what’s happening domestically, internationally. We’re in a contentious political cycle and we look at the roles of individuals entrusted with duty of care that safeguards, stadiums, venues, and arenas. We look at obviously what happened with the Taylor Swift concerts in Vienna. Certainly, the right move for event organizers to cancel those concerts based on the evolving threat continuum.
So yes, when we’re dealing with large groups of people in densely populated areas, we’re dealing, as I’ve mentioned, with protesting and civil unrest and a multitude of security challenges in the event space. The role of today’s sports venue risk manager is paramount, certainly to lead people to safety during crisis situations. But certainly, the education, the research, and the knowledge sharing, the information gathering is so vitally important during these most difficult times.
Jim Reese: You’re absolutely right. I agree. And I think we all see that in the world right now. You just mentioned a key phrase that I think maybe would be good to start off with, and as you called it, duty of care, we used to call it standard of care. And I’ll just give you an example with baseball facilities before they had nets. The standard of care is what the general industry is doing in a certain area, and unfortunately until someone gets hurt, that standard sometimes doesn’t change. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
James DeMeo: So, duty of care is the prevailing theme in today’s multi-billion-dollar sports and entertainment industry. And certainly I’ll preface it by saying I’m not an attorney, but based on my research and knowledge and expertise in this space, sports venue risk managers and venue ownership groups have that entrusted duty of care to ensure once they scan your ticket, once you go through the ingress screening, once you’re in that stadium venue arena, they’re responsible for your safety and welfare. And that also includes when you leave the venue.
And we’ve seen a lot of times, Jim, that folks don’t want to have conversations with folks like you and I unless something unfortunately, tragically has happened. So where do we create that nexus between the goals of sport marketers, and that’s obviously the college audience, NIL, the portal, obviously TV and streaming contracts, there’s so much money in this space, but folks really don’t want to look at security because they don’t consider it a value-add proposition until unfortunately they become that venue that’s known for all the wrong reasons.
They don’t ensure that duty of care. They end up explaining with some kind of notice of claim why didn’t have conversations with Jim and James about risk management and event security, and obviously safeguarding confined spaces with densely populated individuals and groups of fans attending live events.
So, it’s certainly something that sport venue risk managers and sports security specialists work diligently on a daily basis. But there’s always room for improvement. There’s always room to educate venue staff, guest services, security. And again, to bolster that sports security playbook predicated on the notion that duty of care is that prevailing theme.
Jim Reese: I feel the same way. And the thing that bothers me, and I hate to say this, but having worked in professional sports like you mentioned, and you reply a second ago about the value, if they don’t see a value in it, they don’t want to spend the money on it. And until that threat of a lawsuit or serious injury becomes a reality, that unfortunately is the thing that kind of pushes them in the direction to actually take action and it’s unfortunate if that’s the case.
James DeMeo: Yeah, I would agree. And certainly, reactionary measures will no longer suffice during times of global disruption. So obviously proactive risk mitigation is something that I’m a strong proponent of and certainly trying to bolster those between law enforcement, venue security, venue ownership groups. Folks in the industry talk a lot about a lot of concerns, but certainly crowd management is one and public-private partnerships, and we’ll talk a little bit about technology integrations as well.
But it’s a conversation, Jim, that people don’t really want to have until, again, there’s some type of litigation, there’s a notice of claim, and then they bring folks that are subject matter experts in to testify against those organizations because they skimped on security. And we really don’t want that to happen. We don’t want those organizations to be known as that organization that cut corners. And we’ve seen it time and time again with the Bryan Stow case with the LA Dodgers.
They were cited for 21 million in negligence. Brian Stow was a fan that was brutally assaulted. We’ve seen with the Boston Marathon bombing, we’ve seen obviously with the Las Vegas shooting incident, which is considered a black swan event, completely unprecedented in the sports security industry. Very, very difficult situation to mitigate.
We look forward obviously with Copa and what happened in Miami with potential crowd management problems. We look at obviously Travis Scott with AstroWorld, when we lose control of events, Jim, from the beginning, it’s very, very difficult to play the catch-up game in sports security.
So why not have the conversation now? Why not work with the higher ed leaders? Why don’t we conduct the research, do the after actions, the best practices, the sharing of information, and coordinate those efforts with our governmental stakeholders? Obviously federal, state, local fusion centers, everybody working in a coordinated effort to ensure the safety of fans, assets and organizational brand.
It’s really something that I am extremely passionate about. I know it’s a very important conversation and we’re hoping that the audience takes something from it, that we want to look at risk holistically. We want to look at it from multiple angles. We want to be in a position where we operate from a position of strength based on our training, education, research and knowledge.
Jim Reese: Well, that’s where our student population is really unique. And I know we talked about this around 80% of our under, we’ve got about 600, close to 700 undergrad students. About 80% of those are either in the military or military affiliated. On the graduate side about 63, 64%. So, we have a very large percentage of our student population that has training and at least some training in this area. And so, I think that from the standpoint of career options, I think that this podcast, I think really could hit home for a lot of people.
You mentioned how in your introduction, we always talk about the importance of networking in sports and it really is because it’s such a small industry, getting to know as many people as possible, but networking and going to conferences, there’s all kinds of things that students can do if they have an interest. Generally, what are your thoughts on if we have a student gets out of the military that’s interested in the career path, what would you recommend that they do to position themselves for a job or internship?
James DeMeo: Well, reach out to folks like James DeMeo. I would love, Jim, for that to happen because I’ve had conversations with ex-military through ASIS and law enforcement liaisons and military liaisons, reaching out to folks like myself that have made that transition. I’m happy to share any information, lessons learned from me, but the way I really got into it was just I put myself out there.
I was on social media, LinkedIn, that’s how I landed my event security position at the Barclays Center, through LinkedIn. And so, subsequently, since retiring from law enforcement in 2011, I’ve kind of created a niche for myself where, hey, I’m passionate about teaching. I love lifelong learning, but I have to roll up my sleeves and say I don’t have all the answers and I need to surround myself with people that are smarter than me, that know more than I do.
But to have confidence in myself to say that that’s okay and understanding that we’re all in this together. We’re all, especially military coming in, they have a tremendous skill set, but they have to make that transition into the private sector. They have to learn to speak that civilian language and integrate within those spaces. And it wasn’t really a perfect path for me, but through LinkedIn, through posting, through networking, I had the good fortune of connecting with Dr. Stacey Hall from the National Center for Spectator Sports, Safety, and Security.
And she was instrumental in me landing roles in higher ed just because she had confidence in my ability to talk about these subjects. And from that, I’m just so thankful for that opportunity that I’ve ended up teaching with several universities, extremely passionate about training the future leaders that will go out into these spaces.
I would say to everyone listening, roll up your sleeves. It’s okay not to have all the answers. Put yourself out there, ask the questions. You’ve mentioned conferences, networking, educational consortiums, research, research, research. There’s so much open-source information. Again, properly vet it, but take the time to really understand how neat this niche is, and it is really unique.
And I’ve mentioned Taylor Swift, and I’ve mentioned obviously we’ve seen with the Olympics and what happened with the arson attacks on mass transit hubs. This is a fascinating niche for sports and entertainment and quite honestly, they can’t do it without us. There are no, there’s no multi-billion-dollar juggernaut unless it’s a safe, secure event. And so, we need one another. Smart marketers need sports security professionals and vice versa.
But again, we have to find that balance, Jim, of creating an amazing fan experience but not being overzealous and creating a police state. Where is that fan experience? And ultimately everybody wants to be safe. And it goes back to what we initially talked about, the duty of care. But again, I think this is an amazing space for the students to consider. I’ll do everything I can obviously to help them with your permission, but it’s a great conversation, it’s timely, and I think it’s going to continue to garner more interests both domestically and internationally.
Jim Reese: I agree 100%. And you’re right, that is a delicate balance. The way that I look at it when we talk to students is when we’re putting events on, it’s about creating memories, and people can still remember memories from events that they’ve gone to or things that they’ve shared with a family member at an event.
Those are lifelong memories and it’s our job to try to facilitate those and that’s what makes sport great. And so, I’m with you 100% on that. You mentioned technology earlier, James, just based on the different risk assessments that you’re doing and going to events, what’s your take on the state of technology from the security standpoint at facilities right now?
James DeMeo: It’s tremendous. ASIS International talks about, Jim, a term known as convergence. It’s really technology integration with physical security. But when you look at, think about the last event you’ve attended with your family, if you think about the technologies, biometrics, and license plate readers and errant drones, rogue drones and effective drone policy at a stadium venue arena, the fan experience is smartphones.
Download that app and a safe fan is an educated fan, but technology’s integrations are so important. When I opened the Barclays Center, I was in the command center for a billion-dollar building. So, we had CC television and access control and PTZ cameras. But we’ve seen obviously a few years ago in the NFC championship at SoFi Stadium, there was a fan that was assaulted on exterior perimeter and law enforcement was able to utilize license plate reader technologies to zero in on that plate, run the plate, and actually apprehend the individual responsible for committing those acts against the victim in that case.
So, we’ve seen that when venue ownership groups take the time to do thorough and complete risk assessments, they bolster their cybersecurity posture. They look at the advantages of two-way communications and 911 EMS incident tracking in the command centers, responsible social media monitoring by law enforcement, the biometrics, the fast queue lanes.
These are all things to prevent people from getting hurt. These are things from preventing people from being in a choke point or a bottleneck. These spaces are prime targets for terrorist attacks on soft target perimeters for stadium venues and arenas. So why not utilize technology? Why not use cutting edge resources to keep fans safe during times of global disruption, as I’ve mentioned.
Jim Reese: Well, that’s great to hear. It really is, but we can just look to the news for examples. Just a few months ago we had a breakdown of communication between Secret Service and local law enforcement, and they weren’t all able to communicate effectively with each other. So, it sounds like there’s still room for improvement.
James DeMeo: There’s always room for improvement, whether it’s a political rally, whether it’s a performing arts center, that there’s a protest going on. There’s always room through after-action reports to kind of do a holistic 20,000-foot overview, if you will, and really find out what went wrong? What did we do right? And how do we make improvements? And we’ve seen with Travis Scott, again, there’s litigation. That’s not the route we want to go for these venue ownership groups, but people are going to look at these after-action reports.
But remember, we have to look at, Jim, that the bad actors are studying our playbooks too. A lot of information that we’re saving is open-source resources. So, the bad actors are studying our playbooks, they’re doing reconnaissance, they’re looking to exploit the vulnerabilities at stadiums, venues, and arenas. So as much as we put a lot of efforts into training and education, we also have to be mindful of the lone wolf actor, the insider threat, as well as individuals that are looking to exploit these spaces for their own gains.
Jim Reese: It reminds me of performance enhancing drugs. You always seem to be reactive rather than proactive. And I think going back to your point about technology, I think that’s one of the areas where we can possibly gain a little bit more control over the situations and being proactive in some cases.
James DeMeo: And I was going to say too, like geo-fencing. You’re inside the command center and using all these technologies and now someone hashtag bomber or somebody, a bad actor posts something in real time right before the event, that has to be properly vetted. I know when I was in law enforcement, everything was the real thing until proven otherwise.
If I’m in the command center at the Barclays Center and I’m working with the NYPD and they are responsibly monitoring what’s being posted in real time, I’m ensuring that through those technologies, I’m dispatching event security staff and law enforcement to go to those exterior parameters if I see something on the camera that doesn’t look right, doesn’t feel right. Somebody calls into the command center, somebody sends an anonymous text in section 101, we’re going to look into that and we’re going to vet that threat to the greatest degree possible.
Jim Reese: That creates another question from the standpoint. We’ve talked about risk assessment analysis, you mentioned about the license plate readers. I think a lot of people don’t realize, and I’ll let you expand on this, that when you do a risk assessment, it’s not just an internal thing. You have to include the exterior perimeter as well.
James DeMeo: Yeah, I mean, it’s a holistic, I keep saying the word holistic, but just look at the space from multiple angles inside the command center to obviously ingress screening, clear bag policies, and they’re checking the ladies’ purses and they’re obviously asking the gentleman to take their wallets and keys out and you’re going through the magnetometers to those soft target exterior perimeters.
We didn’t even get into vehicles as weapons, which is problematic in Europe, but we have to be mindful of crowds that are congregating as they’re trying to ingress, as they’re trying to get through the screening. The bad actors can exploit those weaknesses. We saw that with Manchester at the Ariana Grande concert. A bad actor with a bomb vest on killed a lot of people, unfortunately. So, we have to just ensure that we’re looking at the space, Jim, holistically, I feel that the industry should be doing more in terms of risk assessments.
And again, when was the last time you did your risk assessment? Who did it and what’s their level of training? What metrics are you using for event security and guest services in terms of their understanding of how to lead people to safety during true crisis situations? So, risk assessments are a key component to a robust sports security posture, and we look at doing a SWOT analysis, some kind of risk matrix chart.
So, we look at not only foreseeability going back to duty of care, but also is it a low, medium, or high risk? And what are the threats, challenges, and vulnerabilities? And all those things can be articulated within the confines of a risk assessment. Where is the venue located? Is it in an urban center? Tends to be on exterior perimeters, problematic. Lots of people in a confined space as well as maybe vehicles as weapons outside the Superdome.
So, what are we doing to restrict those traffic flows? I know with LA 2028, it’s going to be a car-free zone. They don’t want cars anywhere near that facility, and I think that’s the right move. But then we have to dial back to what happened in Paris. Now everyone’s going on the trains. So, what are we doing to sweep the trains before, during, and after the event? Because a bad actor can get in those mass transit hubs and cause mayhem and chaos. And we want to ensure through the risk assessments, Jim, concentric circles of security, the inner perimeter, the middle perimeter, and the outer perimeter from inside out, the outside in. Obviously, a holistic view of the multitude of challenges facing today’s sport venue risk manager.
Jim Reese: As I said, I worked in the NFL, I’ve worked a few Super Bowls, but I was only responsible for the Broncos tasks. As far as the level of planning that goes into one of these mega events, how far out did they start working on that?
James DeMeo: Oh, it’s tremendous. I mean, certainly as soon as the previous Super Bowl ended, they hit the ground running. Now it’s moved forward to the next Super Bowl. So obviously we’re looking at probably year, 18 months, two years in advance, somewhere in that window for a project of that magnitude. Mega events, the world is watching. And so, we have the halftime show. We have this international popular event that everyone’s watching, and so there’s a great degree of planning.
So, I’m sure the NFL and their infinite wisdom sits down, and they looked at everything that goes right and what can they improve upon? And listen, they have an amazing plethora of resources. They have a lot that midsize venues and smaller venues don’t have, but people still do get on the field.
So, we have to factor in the human element of people of security officers and guards just letting their guard down momentarily. And now someone wants to propel their cause at the 50 yard line, and now all of a sudden maybe the networks pull away from it, but there’s 80,000 fans that have smartphones and someone’s going to film that and put it on Twitter, and now it shows that it’s an unsafe venue or it’s an unsafe event. So again, having those conversations, looking to improve upon things that have happened and what are the real-time challenges, and looking at, from multiple angles, to ensure that you’re mitigating risks to the greatest degree possible.
Jim Reese: How do government agencies or laws such as ADA, OSHA, how does all that tie into this?
James DeMeo: I’m glad you asked me that because as a teacher, that’s something that I always look for in my risk assessment projects for my students. I want to see something in there about the American Disabilities Act, in terms of OSHA and the requirements that venue ownership groups have. Is there available handicapped parking? Is there proper signage? ASIS talks a lot about crime prevention through environmental design, CPTED, which is really a big theme right now in sports security.
But you’re right, ADA is really important. We have to be mindful that all of our patrons are coming to the venue in different places and some may have more needs than others, but we have to ensure that we’re safeguarding everyone in terms of the ADA compliances, that there’s proper signage and that if there is a true emergency situation that we have to have staff that are trained to lead individuals with disabilities that are handicapped or whatnot, just as that duty of care applies to everybody within this space.
Jim Reese: Absolutely. Now for our students, I know the first question that I would get when this topic of a career path comes up is what are the types of jobs that are available? Now, obviously you have a background in law enforcement, there are different types of security positions available. There’s a lot more than just working big events out there for people to be responsible for.
James DeMeo: Sure. So, think of back of house. So, I’ll give you my example. I like to story tell as a teacher, but I opened the Barclays Center. Jay-Z, Beyonce all eight shows followed by Barbra Streisand, and we’ll get into a little bit about crowd demographics. But to answer your question, we look at back of house. So, we’re talking facilities, risk management, conversion crew. Who’s going to take up the stage and put down a different floor for hockey as an example? So, my experience at Barclays was 24/7, 365.
Fast-forward to today’s date, they’re one of the higher revenue producing venues in the country. But in the beginning, there was lots of things that we learned. I was with AEG, there was Securitas, there was the NYPD, lots of moving parts going on back of house. So, understanding that I can get in as guest services. I’m scanning tickets, I’m talking to the patrons as they’re coming in, I’m ex-military but guess what? I’m working on my threat and behavioral analysis when I’m talking to the fan.
Is somebody acting out of the ordinary? I’m also ensuring my own personal situational awareness. I’m also working on my verbal de-escalation skills in the event we have to go to section 101 with the NYPD to deal with a potential fight situation. So again, anything related to facilities, risk management, conversion crew, operations, these are the things that I learned about.
These are the things that I teach, but you don’t necessarily have to come from the military or law enforcement. There’s lots of opportunities because ownership groups understand the importance of what we’ve been talking about during this conversation, and they want to have the right pieces of the puzzle in the right places, and they want to ensure that people know exactly what they’re doing to protect that particular venue.
Jim Reese: That coordination between different agencies and organizations. How was that for you at the Barclays Center in your experience? Because I’ve found that there are always issues with territoriality and things like that. How hard is that to coordinate?
James DeMeo: It’s always a challenge, and I’ll just use my personal experience. My manager said, “Hey, James, go speak to the cops. They understand you.” So, I walked up to the NYPD, said, “Hey, I’m James DeMeo, retired Nassau PD.” They circled around me in a good way. Now all of a sudden, we had that commonality. So, I would say to the ex-military folks that are studying in the university, to put yourself out there.
I was with a paramilitary organization. But again, if you’re not from either of those two worlds, you just have to just roll up your sleeves and start to understand the language that we’re talking about right now. If you really do a deep dive on sports security and facilities, you’ll become that value add proposition for somebody that is a general manager. And that was my experience for me.
I talked to Dave Anderson. He opened a billion-dollar building. He was a general manager of the Barclays Center in 2012. He said, “James, how do you know about all this stuff?” I said, “Because I’m interested.” Now all of a sudden, he’s moving closer to me and he’s saying, “Tell me more. Tell me more.” Now I become that value add proposition where, “Hey, let’s use James in something other than security.” Or, “Let’s invite him to a pre-event meeting. Because of his background and interest.”
Dave Anderson started selling popcorn for the Chicago White Sox in his early days in sport management and now he was opening a billion-dollar building for Matt Bettenhausen and AEG. I know all these folks because I put myself out there on LinkedIn. But to answer your question, it’s challenging because when we look at… I’ll give you my example, I worked at a midsize venue in Austin, Texas, which is the Cedar Park Center, H-E-B Center.
When I was the event security supervisor, and again, I’m retired law enforcement, I’d love being on overtime showing up at the venue. Everybody’s trained in active shooter. However, you have different agencies that may not know even who the security manager is. They’re on overtime, they’re trained in active shooter protocols, but they show up on the venue and they’re working with somebody from DPS or somebody from a local community college, an officer that is.
So, you have different agencies that show up on overtime. So, it’s ensuring that everyone’s on the same page to know not only who the security manager is, but who’s the lieutenant running the security detail and to ensure that the officers know who they’re working alongside with because they may very well be from different agencies.
Jim Reese: James, you mentioned crowd control earlier. Something you wanted to touch on there as far as managing traffic flow?
James DeMeo: Yeah, I mean, Keith’s still over in Europe. He’s the expert on this. You can look him up on LinkedIn, but Copa down in Miami, it was a problem. We know about Hillsborough and things that happened in the UK. People died when we had ineffective crowd management. So, everyone that I’m speaking with, Jim, is very concerned about lots of people in a densely populated area and not having staff have the highest level of training on what to do with effective crowd management. That goes back to originally that risk assessment that we talked about.
But yeah, everyone’s talking about it. Court storming. Obviously, if it’s college basketball, we have to look at the demographic for college students. They want to have a good time. We want them to enjoy in the celebration. But we saw within the SEC, obviously University of Tennessee was fined, I think quarter of a million dollars because students got on the field. So, it’s revisiting those policies, procedures, and protocols for obviously crowd management and what you will do to ensure that fans are safe while they’re out at the venue.
Jim Reese: James, as we wind down here, what are your thoughts on the technology with facial recognition and with license plate scanners? Are there any other kind of emerging technologies out there that are on the horizon that are about to kick in or just have gone into place that are worth discussing?
James DeMeo: It’s an evolving conversation, because there’s always going to be new bells and whistles. And I’ve always said, Jim, it’s a great question, but if you’re at the command center, at the controls in a billion-dollar building, you’re only as good as the level of training that you’re providing that person that’s using that PTZ camera as an example.
So training is an integral part to go along with the technologies. But the ones I’ve mentioned, just to recap, the biometrics, obviously, the fast pass lanes, the queuing, the magnetometers, the hand-wanding, these are all essential technologies. The two-way communications, and obviously the incident tracking is key because if there’s a slip, trip, and fall in section 101 or there’s some kind of an injury, attorneys are going to want that documentation and they’re going to get it from the venue, if one of their clients gets injured at that stadium venue arena.
So we want to make sure that the security supervisors are training the staff on how to correctly take incident reports to document that information that obviously the paramedics EMS, the law enforcement officers that are assigned to work that detail know exactly who’s in charge and that everyone is on the same page in the interest of public safety. And so, technology is an integral part, but again, we can never discount the human factor. Jim, it’s so important.
People pay attention. There are advantages to in-house staff first, third party, there’s pros and cons, but to ensure that staff has the highest level of training, because it tends to be higher turnover with event security staff. So, we want to ensure that they’re buying into the organizational culture and that they’re there for more than just watching the event that they’re keeping me and my family and your family safe because they’re buying into the goals of that sport venue ownership group.
Jim Reese: You really hit a nerve there with stadium incident reports because I used to do those at the Old Mile High Stadium. So, I think there’s a discussion offline of sharing some pretty crazy stories of some things I had to write up, and I’m sure you have too.
James DeMeo: We’re chuckling about it, but at the same time, it really is something that the venues need to revisit. What can they do to improve upon that? Because you and I know and the audience is listening, somebody’s going to want that information if somebody gets hurt, and that’s that liability, the tort side of sports security. And again, I’ve been a strong proponent of this for the last 12 years, there is no sport marketing without sports security.
Again, case in point, naming rights is huge in sports and entertainment. Barclays Center received $250 million over 25 years to put the letters on top of, the oculus on top of the building. That all goes away if there’s a tragic situation at that stadium, and let’s hope that never happens. Down here in Raleigh, they went from PNC Arena to the Lenovo Center. Okay, we have the Hurricanes in the NHL, a great brand down here in Raleigh, North Carolina.
However, they received $60 million for naming rights over 10 years. That all goes out the window if that’s the venue that’s known for all the wrong reasons. So again, there is no safe event without folks that know what they’re doing, have the highest level of training, and they’re going to keep us all safe and sound at the stadiums, venues, and arenas. So, there is definitely a nexus between the goals of sport marketers and those of sports security, and we all need one another, and we all need to understand the value proposition that we bring during these times.
Jim Reese: That’s a great point I think that people sometimes forget about is the negative publicity that goes along with being an event sponsor, like a stadium naming rights and things like that. So, these issues that we’re talking about touch a lot of different people for sure.
James DeMeo: Yeah, they do. And everybody wants their 15 seconds of fame at the table, and you and I’ve been at those pre-event meetings. “Hello, raise your hand. I’m security here. No, I’m the CTO, Chief Technology.” Everybody wants to get in front of the owner of the Barclays Center to say, “I need more resources.” And so they have to do it lean and mean, but at the same time, they have to do it within the budgetary parameters. But stadium design and architecture is a huge field. The role of project managers are important.
As I mentioned earlier that crime prevention through environmental design is something that’s moving into the space, the convergence, which is the integration of technologies as we’ve mentioned with physical security. So, this is a field that’s going to continue, Jim, to garner global attention based on this evolving threat continuum. And certainly, it’s been an honor to have this conversation. I really get energized by the questions, by the answers, by the discussion to really reach a larger audience about the importance of everything that we’ve talked about during this discussion.
Jim Reese: That’s good to hear because we’re fortunate to work in a really fun industry but has a serious side as well. But I got to tell you, James, those pre-event planning meetings that I’ve been a part of where you bring a representative from all the different constituencies that are going to be have responsibility at the event, those are some of the best meetings I’ve ever been in because the maintenance people are talking about a pipe that burst recently. So, one bathroom is offline. You just get to know everything that’s going on at a facility before the event happens. And so, it really helps from the standpoint of working together with some other folks
James DeMeo: And you get to know what the artist and the performer wants. I mean, again, Jay-Z, Beyonce, all eight shows, and we didn’t even get into demographics followed by Barbra Streisand. She wanted kind of a tent area from the Long Island Railroad MTA to the front of the oculus so that her fans wouldn’t get rained upon.
It didn’t rain one night, but I was at that pre-event meeting, and obviously there was permits with Brooklyn and the general manager, and the… These are the conversations. So, what does the performer want, he or she or obviously the band or what have you? And to do that from a perspective of looking at it, what are the risks associated with putting these things in?
So, these pre-event meetings are really important because again, if I’m at midsize venue, and this happened and Kid Cudi was performing in Houston, and I just did a quick Google search, Jim, I’ll tell you this real quick, Jim, some fans jumped up on the stage in Houston and while he was coming to our venue at the Cedar Park Center, so at the pre-event meeting, I raised my hand and I said, “I’ve got something to share.”
So, I was able to share that information. “Hey crew, listen, this could happen tonight.” And the general manager and the security manager, director, appreciated me sharing that information. So, when you’re out at these venues, do your own research so that you can be safe. You can share that information at those pre-event meetings, because again, a very good effective security manager is someone, Jim, that gets on the phone and says, “Hey, tell me about this performer. They were at your venue last week. What can I expect? Because they’re coming to my event next Friday night.”
And if I’m in a Barclays Center and I’m in a midsize venue, I’m making that call because it’s all about information sharing, again, because we’re all in this together. And the events industry is a very tight circle, and people work with people they like and trust, and nobody wants to be that venue that skimps and cuts corners on security. Nobody wants to be in a position, because we all have to lay our head down at night knowing that we did everything possibly we could to keep fans safe while out at the venue.
Jim Reese: That’s a great point. And I think that that research and those phone calls that you’re talking about, I really think that that is the difference between great security and average security. It’s great to hear you share that with our listeners, with our students, and to reinforce the extra effort that really needs to go into these things to make sure that everyone’s safe.
James DeMeo: Nobody bats 1,000 in the sports security industry, but we have to be right. And you’ve heard this all the time with the experts that are on the media stations. The bad actor just has to be right once. And ultimately, we have to do the best we can every time out. And again, it’s different demographics, different shows, load in, load out, back of house, lots of moving parts, but taking the time to know who’s coming out to your venue, what can we anticipate in terms of the crowd that’s showing up, and what can we do to mitigate the risks to the greatest degree possible based on that performer, that artist, that circus, that performing arts center?
Because we understand the importance of being proactive, and that to me is really what makes the difference between average to outstanding security. And it’s that extra effort, Jim, that we’ve been talking about. When you’re at that table, now all of a sudden they’re talking to Jim and James and saying, “Wow, I really like the work that they’re doing to keep us safe.” And now all of a sudden, it’s budget time and you need more resources. Well, guess what? You’re going to get them. Because now we’ve been able to speak the language of the C-suite, so they understand the role of sports security within the space.
Jim Reese: Absolutely. Definitely on the same page for sure. All right, James, one more question. We end every podcast with this, and so, what is next for James DeMeo? What are your goals for the next three to five years? Or is there something on your bucket list that you’d like to do that you haven’t done? Just to share a little bit about that with us?
James DeMeo: Well, again, I’m going to continue to teach because I just love it. I’m going to continue to do podcasts like this with outstanding universities to share the importance and just be somebody who wants to make a difference. That’s why I went into public service, to make a difference and for me to take my passion for sports with my public service background to do something that I would do for absolutely for free and get paid for it is always nice, but I still love it.
I’m more passionate now than ever before about this field. I have a doctorate in mind that I’m looking at some doctoral programs to really hyper focus and really become somebody who really wants to make a difference, training the future leaders that will keep our families safe, and that’s my legacy. I want to be that person that’s known as trying to make a difference in a fallen world to really just understand that we all are in this together. These are troubling times, but at the same time we work together, we can really make a difference during these most difficult times.
Jim Reese: Well, I’ll tell you, your perspective is really refreshing because people that look to get better every day that are not content, know what I’m saying? They’re willing to go that extra mile, those are people that I want to be associated with. And so, we try to do the same thing on the academic side, what can we do to get better for students every day?
James DeMeo: Well, I appreciate the kind words and really that’s what it’s about. And I’ll tell the students again, just put yourself out there. Connect with me on LinkedIn, if it’s okay with you, Jim, and the university. I did a presentation yesterday at the University of Dayton through one of their sport legal classes, and I encourage with the dean’s permission for the students, and several students immediately connected with me on LinkedIn, which is always just so rewarding as a teacher to say, “Show of hands.”
And all the hands or most of the hands in the class go up because now all of a sudden, they’re like, “Wow, I didn’t really know about this before.” And really that’s what we should be doing is introducing something that’s really, really important. So, thank you for this opportunity. It’s been a great conversation and I look forward to continued conversations with you and the university. So, thank you so much.
Jim Reese: Oh, you’re very welcome. We appreciate you being here and we’re really hoping that this podcast does that with some of our students. That light bulb goes on or there’s an interest that all of a sudden in a career path that they may not have thought about. And so that’s why we do what we do because it’s all about helping students get jobs.
James DeMeo: No doubt. Get to that next level. And again, just connect with folks that, and credit to you to bring in subject matter experts and industry leaders. And I do this with teaching with Tulane as I’ll invite folks virtually into my Zoom classes because it’s nothing better for the students to see that somebody that’s doing this day in day out to reinforce what they’re learning in the textbook, reinforce the case studies, reinforce what the teacher’s training them on and educating them on to have somebody that’s living this 24/7, 365.
It really, especially with my student evaluations, that’s the feedback I’m getting, Jim, is that they love talking to folks that are in the trenches that are doing this. And then subsequently, as an adjunct, as an instructor, I love connecting my students with people that are in the industry so they can get jobs, they can get internships, they can make inroads into the competitive sports and entertainment industry.
Jim Reese: Those guest speakers or guest lecturers, they provide a level of credibility that really makes an impact on students. So, I agree with you 100%. James, we can’t thank you enough. As I said earlier, thanks for being here. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. Is there anything else maybe that we have not covered yet that you wanted to touch on for our students that you think is important?
James DeMeo: So just two things, and you’ve mentioned one of them. Jim, is lifelong learning. I mean, I just did a graduate certificate with App State. It took me two years to do just because I want to become a better teacher. So, whether it’s doing a deep dive on sports security facilities, risk management, I would share some resources with the listening audience. The National Center for Spectator Sports Safety and Security, affiliated with the University of Southern Mississippi, the NCS4.
They are Dr. Hall, Stacey Hall, they are the leader in sports security. The International Association of Venue Managers with Mark Herrera. He is a retired law enforcement officer like myself, he is their director of training. There’s just so many, ASIS international. I hold a professional membership with them. So, we don’t want the students to break the bank, but understand how important it is to go to these conferences to connect with James DeMeo on LinkedIn.
I have a group, it’s a private group, Jim, Sports Security Professionals. I started it on LinkedIn. I have, I imagine 1,000 folks in the space. I can reach out to them anytime and say I’m here. And those networking opportunities are just so crucial for career advancement, professional development. But as I mentioned, NCS4. TEEX, T-E-E-X with Texas A&M College Station, Stadium Managers Association, ASIS International as well. Just Google everything sports security, and you’ll see in real time what’s happening.
But certainly, thanks for everybody listening in. Hopefully the light bulb did go off. You look at events a little bit differently. When you go out to an event, you’re ensuring your own personal safety, how you got in the venue, how you’re going to get out, fully charged cell phone, where you parked, special code word for you and your family in the event something unfolds so that you can be out in front. You can operate from a position of strength during a true crisis situation. So, thank you again.
Jim Reese: James, again, thank you so much. To our listeners, thank you for your continued support of our Voices in the Field podcast series. We’re having a blast putting these together and providing these speakers for you, for our students. We’re still working on securing our next guest, but for those that have seen the movie Rudy, we hope that Rudy Ruettiger will be able to join us for our next podcast. We’ve been trying to secure Rudy for quite some time now, but she’s out on speaking engagements and things like that. So, we’re hoping that Rudy will be able to get him by the end of the year. So, until then, on behalf of myself and all of our colleagues at the APU Sports Management Program, this is Jim Reese saying, so long.
